COMMENTS
user-submission@feedback.com
I've been questing for
the meaning of life and a reason to live it for as long
as I've been alive. As an adolescent, teen and adult I sought
out and dialogued with rabbis, reverends, priests and pastors,
Protestants, Baptists, Evangelists and Sikhs, Mormons, Catholics,
Chassidim and Lutherans, born again Christians, born again
Jews, Unitarians, Muslims, Atheists and Agnostics, Jehovah's
Witnesses, Buddhists of every stripe . . . the list is long.
I wasn't looking for a new religion to join. I wanted to
learn about their ideas. Zen, which isn't a religion, and
to which I was first exposed in my early teens, brought
a lot to the table. It gave me answers and ideas that were
heads and shoulders above all the isms and ists I investigated,
especially those that claimed there was only one right way
to live and that way was their way. Zen, in fact, wasn't
and still isn't an ism. In any event that's enough about
Zen. Verily I say unto you, Zen is not something one talks
about. And even if it was I really don't know much about
it. Or about Buddhism.
What led me there was not him – it was the Zen.
It was the genuine sincerity and authenticity of the residents
I met. It was the meditation. The fraternity. The support.
It was the seclusion and retreat from a chaotic society
and family that had nothing in common with me and nothing
to offer me. It was the seclusion and retreat from a chaotic
society and family I had nothing in common with and seemingly
nothing to offer. Birds of a feather will flock together
and humans aren't any different. Zen and an exodus –
many would and did call it desertion – from the madness
that was and still is our world made sense to me and provided
the berth I needed to forage and follow my path. Looking
back on those far-from halcyon days of innocence and idealism,
I can say with complete assuredness that no one conned me
into joining and no one pressured me into joining. It was
all my idea and it seemed like a pretty good one at the
time.
There are some who need clear-cut answers for practically
everything, for whom the lack of a definitive answer is
an absolute non-starter, for whom all phenomena are black-and-white
and easily explained. Tempted by and suffering from the
need to categorize, label and file, they draw conclusions
and construct theories based on whatever data is out there,
out of thin air if necessary and then make the evidence
fit their conclusions and theories. A verdict follows, case
closed or words to that effect are authoritatively spoken
and a stentorious gavel is banged on the bench. Once again
we are reassured that two plus two is proven to equal four
and once again the world has been made safe from those who
would rend it asunder. I'm repeatedly stunned anew as speculation
after speculation becomes the new truth. And that, my friend,
is as true as the world is round. I'm not a speculator and
I'll have no truck with bent, warped or forged facts. I'm
a card carrying pure laine nobody who'll only write about
what he knows, not what he doesn't know. And there's a hell
of a lot I don't know. I'm one of those people who can live
without answers or explanations to many things. Regrettably,
although I've been practising for over a decade, I still
have trouble saying three simple words: I don't know. I'm
a work in progress that I know will be unfinished when I
shed this mortal skein.
from rebble_yell.reddet
Debate is healthy, for sure, but it can be challenging when
both participants don't share a common frame of reference.
I was wrong about the transcending duality in dreams, because
even though only mind exists in dreams and nothing physical
does, happiness and sadness still does exist in dreams,
even though these things are self-generated at that point
(well, they always are).
So this is an important point -- this duality is within
the mind. One who has learned to control the mind at that
point only generates the thoughts and feelings they choose
to.
In dreamless sleep one is also beyond duality -- there
is not even any thoughts of the opposites to disturb the
consciousness.
So when the consciousness is not disturbed, one is 'beyond'
duality?'
The monk that I know who has reached these states says
that our consciousness is like the 'movie screen' that movies
are displayed on at movie theaters. He says that we are
always watching the "movies" or experiences of
our mind, but we are never aware of the screen that these
movies are being played on. He says that this 'screen' is
blissful consciousness.
So the ordinary mind identifies itself with the movies
played on the screen of consciousness, while the yogi identified
with the screen of consciousness and is unaffected by whichever
movie is currently playing on that screen.
So one can be beyond duality even in ordinary life -- unaffected
by the drama that is currently unfolding.
However these things can be largely experiential -- the
reason I am a 'believer' is because I have experienced enough
of these high states over decades of meditation to know
that there is much higher ground than the ordinary material
'sense consciousness' that we walk around in to do our daily
duties.
Two people who live in different areas -- for example Alaska
and Hawaii would have different experiences and might have
different ideas of what is real -- the daily life of each
person would seem very fantastical to the other.
So that is my understanding of the realms of Zen and Om
compared to the ordinary person going about their day-to-day
life. In my experience, the world of 'Om' (for lack of a
better word) is like Hawaii while ordinary consciousness
can sometimes be as difficult as living in Alaska during
the winter.
I totally agree that debate is healthy. However to me there
are dimensions of experience that can only be accessed either
by psychedelics or deep meditation. Often it is through
psychedelics that people learn about higher realities that
they then start pursuing through meditation.
I can totally understand your viewpoint that this stuff
about Zen and duality and aom is all a bunch of baloney,
hocus pocus to fool gullible students and part them with
their money and attention.
A person living in Alaska 300 years ago might find tales
of life in Hawaii rather fantastical, but an ocean voyager
who has visited Hawaii a few times could easily visualize
retiring to the beach life on Oahu or Waikiki.
So in my conception, students of Om are like these ocean
voyagers from Alaska who have visited 'Hawaii' once or a
few times and are trying to learn the 'navigation' skills
to be able to return to 'Hawaii' as many times as they want
and learn to stay there permanently if they so wish.
So that's my testimony. I appreciate your desire for healthy
debate, because there is plenty of 'woo' out there, with
people wanting to sell crystals to open your chakras and
all kinds other fairy tales to boot. I just wanted to let
you know that at least in my experience, there is more to
Om and Zen than that.
Which tradition do you follow? Which teachers inspire you?
Are you a Sam Harris fan? I don't know much about him but
he seems to be the atheist teacher of choice these days.
Not a lot of stuff in meditation can be measured precisely.
It's not like you can say 'after 10 hours of doing this
you will be at 25.3876 on the consciousness dial'.
Also, the goals you state are misunderstood. You transcend
'duality' every time you go to sleep and have a dream. In
a dream all you experience is your mind. You are not experiencing
'duality'.
So transcending 'duality' in that sense is not hard. In
every deep state of meditation where you are not attending
to your external senses you are transcending 'duality'.
These states are enjoyable and worthwhile, even if you
don't hit the highest levels of samadhi or God-realization
you can get into wonderful states of bliss and peace.
So yes it's vague, because it's all internal and subjective,
but these states are powerful and enjoyable.
Also there is a wonderful sense of healing. These states
can be mind-blowing and profoundly transformative.
You don't have to get to the highest levels of merging
with everything and all that, although I know people who
have gotten there.
One of the monks I know who has gone beyond the ego says
that this state is really wonderful, and that letting your
ego run your life is a really bad idea. He says 'just look
at your ego's track record. You're letting that run your
life?'
So some goals are easier to attain than others. But bliss
and expansion of consciousness are much easier to attain.
But you have to experience it first to understand it.
These are not false promises. This is the whole purpose
of these activities.
Without a big goal such as satori or enlightenment, the
time spent in these activities would actually be much better
off done with something more productive like having sex
or making money.
In particular Om is a profound phenomenon that extends
beyond merely the physical chanting of it.
The goal of the yogi is to actually listen to this sound
in deep meditation and eventually merge his consciousness
with it, and use that sound to expand his consciousness.
The actual physical or mental chanting of the sound is
just a preparatory practice.
However Om is not a simple physical phenomena, so it can
take some time for the aspiring yogi to get to the levels
of consciousness where actual perception takes place.
So it's a bit disingenuous for someone who has not experienced
the profound power of these practices to criticize them.
It's a little like a deaf person criticizing an aspiring
musician practicing scales. We know that this is ridiculous,
because we are familiar with the power of music.
For the amazing experiences beyond ordinary physical consciousness,
the casual critics can be similarly handicapped as the deaf
person if they have not personally experienced these states.
These deep states of meditation can be profoundly healing
and transformative.
user-submission@feedback.com
The goals you state are misunderstood. You transcend 'duality'
every time you go to sleep and have a dream. In a dream
all you experience is your mind. You are not experiencing
'duality'.
So transcending 'duality' in that sense is not hard. In
every deep state of meditation where you are not attending
to your external senses you are transcending 'duality'.
These states are enjoyable and worthwhile, even if you
don't hit the highest levels of samadhi or God-realization
you can get into wonderful states of bliss and peace.
So yes it's vague, because it's all internal and subjective,
but these states are powerful and enjoyable.
Also there is a wonderful sense of healing. These states
can be mind-blowing and profoundly transformative.
You don't have to get to the highest levels of merging
with everything and all that, although I know people who
have gotten there.
One of the monks I know who has gone beyond the ego says
that this state is really wonderful, and that letting your
ego run your life is a really bad idea. He says 'just look
at your ego's track record. You're letting that run your
life?'
So some goals are easier to attain than others. But bliss
and expansion of consciousness are much easier to attain.
But you have to experience it first to understand it.
In particular Om is a profound phenomenon that extends
beyond merely the physical chanting of it.
The goal of the yogi is to actually listen to this sound
in deep meditation and eventually merge his consciousness
with it, and use that sound to expand his consciousness.
The actual physical or mental chanting of the sound is
just a preparatory practice.
However Om is not a simple physical phenomena, so it can
take some time for the aspiring yogi to get to the levels
of consciousness where actual perception takes place.
So it's a bit disingenuous for someone who has not experienced
the profound power of these practices to criticize them.
It's a little like a deaf person criticizing an aspiring
musician practicing scales. We know that this is ridiculous,
because we are familiar with the power of music.
For the amazing experiences beyond ordinary physical consciousness,
the casual critics can be similarly handicapped as the deaf
person if they have not personally experienced these states.
These deep states of meditation can be profoundly healing
and transformative.
robarto@videotron.ca
You have pushed the stereotype (tongue
in cheek fashion) to the limit.
And it’s true that omers have no lack of ambition.
But there are a few minor corrections that need to be addressed.
The “distracted mind” is a straw man. It’s
not focus. If there is anything antithetical to yoga it
is focusing, which is stressful, which requires attention,
effort and determination. Perhaps to slip into the present,
find oneself embraced by it, be in it, but certainly “not
strive” to be there.
I agree with ”idiot’s joy” – if
taken too seriously. But from personal experience, I can
objectively report there are definite physical advantages
to yoga. There are no better exercises out there than yoga;
every single part of your body gets a work out, from the
toes to the internal organs.
Meditation is also rewarding. It invites one to find the
“phenomenological zone.” Abstracting oneself
from the world is not divorcing from it but, paradoxically,
it is more deeply engaging if only by getting rid of prejudicial
conceptual baggage otherwise fogging experience. I am totally
convinced Heidegger was very much influenced in his thinking
by Buddhist philosophy (yoga).
The phenomenological zone is the aim of meditation, and
it works. The dentist's chair is no longer worrying to me
(as it once was). I can phase out almost at will, silence
anticipation considerably – as it’s an illusion
-- and significantly reduce fear and anxiety. I have also
grown more attentive to phenomena as trivial as ambient
air touching my skin, or the mere lifting of a limb, walking
etc.
I no longer have the need to run back upstairs after leaving
the house not recalling if I switched off the stove or locked
the door, as each and every one of my actions is recalled
in the “presence” of my doing it. This, in my
view, is not a getting away or escaping from the world.
Au contraire.
But I agree with your point about pushing anything to the
limits. Fundamentalist yoga can be ridiculously bizarre
and perhaps even culturally harmful.
And no, I haven’t given up on my meats, I do not
eat bird seed and still do a fair bit of embibing. Then
again I was never encouraged to, though I did quit smoking.
The “getting rid of/indifference to the world”
is a very unfortunate unhappy stereotype of yoga. It misses
the mark. The yogi is most concerned with the world, meaning
he is “moved” to the ways of the world. The
yogi is a lover who does not allow the object of his love
to pain him indefinitely. The yogi does not shun the world.
He learns to find no offense with it but does not shun it,
so he will not take a fit if while reading a book or meditating
the laughter of children is all the while going on in the
street below, or if the worker’s jack hammer is in
full throttle. He “accepts” it for a while.
The yogi is tolerant, hence the poses. One learns to live
with “discomfort,” to ignore it; though not
“pain.” One heeds pain and stops.
What kind of discomfort? Well, if you were to swim underwater
and felt the need to come up for air that need would to
the yogi be mere discomfort. In fact when you and I and
most other mortals feel the “need” for a breath
we could probably still stay beneath for an additional 30
seconds without any physical damage whatsoever.
Can I do that? Absolutely not. But this would not be a
concern to the yogi. What is important is recognizing the
experience. There is much more to yoga than most of us know.
In general, my issue is not with yoga (and philosophy for
that matter), but with the individuals teaching it. Some
are intelligent, well intended, others are profiteers and
fools. When an instructor tells me that animals are smarter
than humans because they learn to adapt to their shortcomings,
as in losing a leg, without too much difficulty, what else
is there to conclude but that “strange days have found
us.”
user-submission@feedback.com
You don't know anything about nothing of what you wrote
in your article. Meditation, yoga is not about emptying
the mind; it's about mind control. We know that small stuff
takes up way too much of our mental time. But we can't do
anything about it. Meditation empowers the mind to control
its agenda, and not the other way around. You should try
it before you criticize it. "Om purifies bliss and
pride (realm of the gods); Ma purifies jealousy and need
for entertainment (realm of the jealous gods); Ni purifies
passion and desire (human realm); Pad purifies ignorance
and prejudice (animal realm); Me purifies greed and possessiveness
(realm of the hungry ghosts); Hum purifies aggression and
hatred (hell realm)." You tell me where the empty mind
is?
user-submission@feedback.com
You make good points but no mention of the sexual predation
by these supposed gurus and they are not isolated events
but they don't get reported because it's a seduction of
innocence and it might be months or years before you realize
what really happened.
ravindra
I don't know where to start from to comment this article.
The more I observe my thoughts, the more I realize that
it's like defending music with a stone deaf person who staunchly
believes that the passion of people for their favourite
music is a symptom of imbecility. And it's a very lukewarm
analogy, in that it implies that people dig spirituality
because it gives them pleasure. Granted many do, but for
the true practitioner it is a non-negotiable call that comes
from much deeper.
user-submission@feedback.com
The yoga discipline/practice/life-style
does not purport to eliminate anything, let alone personal
issues (whether hang-ups, a lost love, death of a loved
one). Yoga in fact is the antithesis of elimination. The
Yogi embraces all, the good and the bad, the joyful and
the painful, and, as the mind can only hold one thought
at the time, the all-embracing experience will de-focus
the individual from annoying/painful singular distractions,
thereby liberating the ego from tormenting pain-ensuing
emotions.
Problem is (at least for some of us anyways ) we can hold
more than one thought at the time. I can hum a song and
perform a mathematical puzzle at the same time. And if this
might not be available to all, we could certainly all enjoy
a Shakespeare play all the while experiencing pain from
some existential piece of knowledge inhabiting the deepest
wells of our very being. But of course the Yogi would have
an answer to this, too.
There are no greater masters in the art of sophistry (bullshit)
than Yogis. For ex., Krishnamurti (though I suspect many
have referred to him as a genius, too). This being said,
yoga does have its benefits, both mental and of course physical.
pconti369@gmail.com
Meditation is not an escape from life. It is a medium to
allow us to calm ourselves for a few moments from the the
fast pace of of our lives .
also by Robert J. Lewis:
Actor
on a Hot Tin Roof
Being
& Self-Consciousness
Giacometti:
A Line in the Wilderness
The
Jazz Solo
Chat
Rooms & Infidels
Music
Fatigue
Understanding
Rape
Have
Idea Will Travel
Bikini
Jihad
The
Reader Feedback Manifesto
Caste the First
Stone
Let's Get Cultured
Being & Baggage
Robert Mapplethorpe
1-800-Philosophy
The Eclectic Switch
Philosophical Time
What is Beauty?
In Defense of Heidegger
Hijackers, Hookers
and Paradise Now
Death Wish 7 Billion
My Gypsy Wife Tonight
On the Origins of
Love & Hate
Divine Right and
the Unrevolted Masses
Cycle Hype or Genotype
The Genocide Gene